would you want to know?

...this is a serious question for me, and David and I differ completely on our answers.... would YOU want to know when you are going to die?? I don't mean to be gruesome in any way.... but my answer is yes,and 'I' would like to know, even if it was going to be today.... I don't have all the reasons formulated in my head about the whys, it is more likely an emotional issue for me....[like: seriously, I didn't want to wake up some morning and discover xply was gone without warning! ~ they gave us a date....see what I mean?] granted, some of people's standard answers are about : why would it matter? if you love your life, and live for today, and get past all the 'big regrets', you need to just accept you won't know... and I do accept it, even if I don't agree with it.... sigh....

In the 'olden' days when someone was terminally ill, the doctor told the patient's family and they decided if the patient should know!!! hello??.... patients started saying it was their right to know, to tie up loose ends, etc.... and then the tides turned and it did become the patient's right! ... a much more personal issue than you think....

Why this is on my mind this morning, is my book club meeting from last night.... the book we reviewed was 'Still Alice', a most amazing book told from the prospective of a young 49 year old woman who was diagnosed with Early Onset Alzheimer's Disease. This book has greatly affected me, and I've been talking about it with people for weeks now, I even bought an extra copy to give to someone who's husband has been diagnosed. [I can loan it out of my kindle if you have an account]

During our discussion, and maybe past it, most of us agreed we would rather have any other illness than that one, even if it meant we passed away younger. It's a personal choice. And while we discussed personal choices, I made the statement that I am one of those people who want to KNOW... when my time will be up.... I was pretty adamant, while most of the ladies, who like David, said they don't want to know.... which is amazing to me....

So during this lively discussion, one of our member told us that her husband was terminal, he is 48 and when his colon cancer [stage 4] was found it was already spread to his liver, and they were told, all we can do is prolong his life with treatments, he has about a year. Well the year is past and Duke Medical Center Oncology Center is keeping him going, but he knows, soon it will be over. They have three children, 18, 10 and 6.... they are living life to the fullest, like she said, this time now is their retirement, and they are trying to live it up.... and she says she doesn't want to know what day he will pass or when her time will come, she just has to do the best she can do. And she softly said that maybe in the face of loss that 'I' would feel different.

Quietly I said that I have been there too, with a terminal husband and mother at the very same time and that made me feel even stronger about wanting the knowledge. I don't have any big regrets behind me... and do I wish for things I [we] didn't do ?? ~ well sometimes, but would they have done anyway? who knows.... so I leave with that pondering question if you would really want to know?



cut and paste from xply comments:

edit delete reply msowens1 wrote on Sep 27 I am out of here today peeps.... gotta deal with MIL's paperwork in person, and have to take my 'baby' [my IMac] into the Apple store.... am hearing a funny noise on the big machine.... be home this evening....

delete reply thegreatoz wrote on Sep 27 Yes, I would want to know.

delete reply klintm wrote on Sep 27 aaaaaaaawww honey, I understand you wanting to know................hugs you tight. The truth is no one knows but our maker, right?? And if we knew, we had exactly 6 months, 1 week, 2 days, 12 hours, would that not make us totally frantic, busy, stressed, trying to finish things that might not matter anyway??? I gave my heart to Our Lord long ago, with that my Life to do with what he wants and in HIs Time. I understand though the need one might have to know exactly especially in a illness that is terminal, but the doctors don't know for sure, it is all guess work and often proven wrong anyway Agree with you 100 % on Alzheimers, anything but that one !!! How do you feel about the right to terminate your own life by the way?????????? Anyone out there ????? That is something I am pretty passionate about, I would like to have the right to say " fine, now I am finished with it" and I am well aware that is against anything the Bible ever taught me and that in the eyes of Christianity it would be considered a crime. If ever I was diagnosed with something pretty horrible terminal, painful , degrading for me and a burden on my relatives, I would like to be able to say " pull the plug" Your views?????????

delete reply thegreatoz wrote on Sep 27 klintm said I would like to have the right to say " fine, now I am finished with it"  I think that I already do have that right . . . unfortunately, the law disagrees with me. ;-)

delete reply klintm wrote on Sep 27 thegreatoz said I think that I already do have that right . . . unfortunately, the law disagrees with me. ;-)  yes that is the problem is it not and whoever helps you , could be prosecuted ???

delete reply trixyschaos wrote on Sep 27, edited on Sep 27 klintm said How do you feel about the right to terminate your own life by the way?????????? Anyone out there ????? That is something I am pretty passionate about, I would like to have the right to say " fine, now I am finished with it" and I am well aware that is against anything the Bible ever taught me and that in the eyes of Christianity it would be considered a crime. If ever I was diagnosed with something pretty horrible terminal, painful , degrading for me and a burden on my relatives, I would like to be able to say " pull the plug" Your views?????????  This is exactly what i was going to bring up with my answer to the question..... No ...I don't want to know the day or the time or the hour, BUT if it would make my passing easier for those who love me.....then yes I would want -them- to know.....I either want it quick--or I want it as pain free as possible. Now....here's my thoughts ....I believe in the right for any person of sound mind and body, to be able to choose whether or not they live....if a person chooses to not suffer and wants to end their life or to have their life ended, IF they face an incurable disease or are suffering....or have before hand had their wishes written out.... then they or I should have that right. I'm going to be blunt honest....Losing my mind while I pee and poop all over myself, getting to the point that I can't feed myself, or don't remember my family.....dying slowly from cancer to the point that I'm struggling .....that's not my idea of an "easy way to go"--and if I want to choose to end my life, so that I dont suffer and my family doesnt suffer while watching me deteriorate in front of them than that should be -my- right.

delete reply goofygreeneyes wrote on Sep 27 i dont know....i need to think more...

delete reply mrsrh wrote on Sep 27 Really not sure how to answer.

delete reply crazykk wrote on Sep 27 I have no idea how to answer this.

delete reply serendipitydreams wrote on Sep 27 Your brain is fascinating

delete reply magickat wrote on Sep 27 Yes, I'd want to know. That way I could plan, and do things I would have put off "till later"...I would like to know.

delete reply lacidanielle wrote on Sep 27 I was first going to say no but I changed my mind. I would want to know so I could go back home where I'd like my ashes to be buried. I'd like to see my family overseas one last time and die where I was born ...in their midst. As far as the right to die....well, we don't let our pets suffer a painful, wretched death, so why should we? I think when we've had enough of this world, we should have the legal right to say, I'd like to leave next week or next month ...or today. It would be nice to have loved ones around me sharing my last day with love and laughter, music, great food, wine and chocolate...chocolate and lots of it. That would be preferable to being in agony and not even guaranteed that someone will hold my hand when it's my time to cross over.

delete reply auntbee46 wrote on Sep 27, edited on Sep 27 I absolutely do NOT want to know when I'm going to die!! I think it would just depress the hell out of me. -And watching that clock tick, tick, tick away - knowing I have 10, 9, 8, 7.....minutes to live? No thanks!!! As for the right to end your own life, I guess I think it should be an option, but with the stipulation that you must sign a legal paper when you are in your right mind as to what constitutes enough for you, who is authorized to help you when the time comes if you are not able to carry it out yourself, and that a doctor must sign off that he agrees when the time comes that those stipulations have been met. I would hate to see someone "put down" just because someone was tired of taking care of grandma, or had held a grudge against his mother his entire life.

delete reply secclux wrote on Sep 27 Yeah..I would like an idea. Of course, I am the one that watches the shots I get too. Seems to make it better for me!

delete reply semisweetsioux wrote on Sep 27, edited on Sep 27 I would say emphatically YES . . . yes, I DO want to know, not so I could sit there watching the clock tick tick tick (as bee so eloquently put it) but so that I would for sure have a chance to say good bye . . . tie up any loose ends that needed tying . . . tell my children and grandchildren one last time that I loved them . . . and not to be sad, because I wasn't afraid to die . . . But yeah . . . I would definitely like to have advance notice . . . That was actually one of the things that totally freaked me out a year ago when I almost died of spinal meningitis . . . My last conscious thought was of walking upstairs to go lay down because my head hurt SO badly . . . and I woke up 36 hours later in the ICU . . . It shook me to my core that I HADN'T had any sense of finality or even a brief 'ok . . . this is it' . . . I really, really want that . . . My belief system says to leave the 'when' in God's hands and trust that there is purpose -- significant purpose -- even in prolonged deaths . . . I do believe that . . . and I have seen that in the lives of people I have known and loved . . . but I wouldn't judge people who decide that there is no reason not to end things in a more timely manner when the end is inevitable and there is no quality of life . . . I understand the feelings behind that kind of decision totally . . . I do not think I would ever choose it, but I understand why people do . . . And I have that book, too, but since we are in the midst of dealing with my mother-in-law's slow descent into severe Alzheimers, I just have not been able to bring myself to read it . . . I am afraid that it will be too much to be LIVING it, as well as READING it . . . I intend to read it someday . . . and who knows, maybe I will suddenly get the urge to read it now . . .

edit delete reply msowens1 wrote on Sep 27, edited on Sep 27 thegreatoz said I think that I already do have that right . . . unfortunately, the law disagrees with me. ;-)  what a sorry commentary on our humanity.... the part where you have a right you can not exercise.....

edit delete reply msowens1 wrote on Sep 27 klintm said aaaaaaaawww honey, I understand you wanting to know................hugs you tight.  I hope I am not sending the wrong message about wanting to know.... it's really the purist in me, or the practical, or the sentimental.... it's for the order of life and things left for others....

delete reply hotstone2go wrote on Sep 27 Yes, if it was possible, I think I might like to know...that would hopefully give me time to cram in all the stuff I planned to do before I go. But, on the other hand, I do most of that anyway, I'm right with my maker, so if he wants me today, here I am. If not, well, guess I'll hang around until they turn the lights out, or they toss my ashes to the four winds.

edit delete reply msowens1 wrote on Sep 27 klintm said How do you feel about the right to terminate your own life by the way??????????  I agree with a lot of statements here, that the dignity of 'being terminal' should be allowed, and yes, for myself.... if the circumstances were such, I would want to exercise the 'right'....

delete reply auntbee46 wrote on Sep 27 I should clarify that I personally can't ever see me exercising that right, as God said Thou shalt not kill - and that includes yourself - but I am not everyone, and I think folks should be able to make that decision for themselves if that's what they want. Maybe they don't believe in my God, or in any God, or still want that right even if they do believe in God - I think it should be their own decision based on their own beliefs.

delete reply auntbee46 wrote on Sep 27 secclux said I am the one that watches the shots I get too  Now *that* doesn't bother me!

edit delete reply msowens1 wrote on Sep 27 I wanted to start replying to each of these comments, and I have ten interruptions going on at once... geez...... I will be back shortly....

delete reply hotstone2go wrote on Sep 27 msowens1 said I wanted to start replying to each of these comments, and I have ten interruptions going on at once... geez...... I will be back shortly....  okey dokey! LOL

delete reply sweetpotatoqueen wrote on Sep 27 Nope..have no interest in worrying about death while living. If I had a terminal disease I would appreciate a proposed length of life to say my final goodbyes,otherwise if I could know the way and the when of the date of my death I would refuse. We all are going die...enjoy the ride,carpe diem etc.

delete reply poetessgarden wrote on Sep 27 trixyschaos said that should be -my- right.  Amen...

edit delete reply msowens1 wrote on Sep 27 sweetpotatoqueen said Nope..have no interest in worrying about death while living. If I had a terminal disease I would appreciate a proposed length of life to say my final goodbyes,otherwise if I could know the way and the when of the date of my death I would refuse. We all are going die...enjoy the ride,carpe diem etc.  I do enjoy the ride immensely..... I can not help the nature of myself, which would be that I would prefer to know..... and not for any other 'reason' than I want.... the why's have no basis in logic, just emotion....

edit delete reply msowens1 wrote on Sep 27 hotstone2go said Yes, if it was possible, I think I might like to know...that would hopefully give me time to cram in all the stuff I planned to do before I go. But, on the other hand, I do most of that anyway, I'm right with my maker, so if he wants me today, here I am. If not, well, guess I'll hang around until they turn the lights out, or they toss my ashes to the four winds.  I like the way you think.....

edit delete reply msowens1 wrote on Sep 27 semisweetsioux said so that I would for sure have a chance to say good bye . . . tie up any loose ends that needed tying . . . tell my children and grandchildren one last time that I loved them . . . and not to be sad, because I wasn't afraid to die . . . But yeah . . . I would definitely like to have advance notice . . .  a lot of people say, if you live with 'no' regrets it doesn't matter if you don't have the chance to do the things you are saying, but the truth is that everytime we hug a loved one goodbye we don't make it a last time.... and I wouldn't want to....

edit delete reply msowens1 wrote on Sep 27 semisweetsioux said And I have that book, too, but since we are in the midst of dealing with my mother-in-law's slow descent into severe Alzheimers, I just have not been able to bring myself to read it . . . I am afraid that it will be too much to be LIVING it, as well as READING it . . . I intend to read it someday . . . and who knows, maybe I will suddenly get the urge to read it now  you will be surprised that the book is not predictable.... and it is about Early Onset ~ not when it happens to the 50% of us as we age.... it's being inside Alice's head and seeing things just from her perspective.... which may not always be accurate [her portrayal of her family].... @ my book club it was interesting to see how we differed in interpreting the title itself.... my MIL is severely affected [@90].... when she offers her breast to a stranger, or [before her broken hip] put on 7 pairs of depends, one on top of each other, and one on each breast, and walked out into the hall and LR of her residence.... she would have been mortified in her right mind.....

edit delete reply msowens1 wrote on Sep 27 msowens1 said . she would have been mortified in her right mind.....  and BEE please don't think I mean she should be 'put down'.... but if she had the chance to see what would become of her, she would not want to be there!

edit delete reply msowens1 wrote on Sep 27 semisweetsioux said My belief system says to leave the 'when' in God's hands and trust that there is purpose -- significant purpose -- even in prolonged deaths . . . I do believe that . . . and I have seen that in the lives of people I have known and loved . . . but I wouldn't judge people who decide that there is no reason not to end things in a more timely manner when the end is inevitable and there is no quality of life . . . I understand the feelings behind that kind of decision totally . . . I do not think I would ever choose it, but I understand why people do . . .  well said... the choice should be individual.... but this post was not about this... lol....

edit delete reply msowens1 wrote on Sep 27 secclux said Yeah..I would like an idea. Of course, I am the one that watches the shots I get too. Seems to make it better for me!  maybe it's a monica thing?

edit delete reply msowens1 wrote on Sep 27 auntbee46 said I absolutely do NOT want to know when I'm going to die!! I think it would just depress the hell out of me. -And watching that clock tick, tick, tick away - knowing I have 10, 9, 8, 7.....minutes to live?  because I would want to know, like I want to know the day that xply is going to die, I want to prepare, I am not afraid of what is to come, and I don't question it.... and while I am prepared... I want more...

edit delete reply msowens1 wrote on Sep 27 lacidanielle said I was first going to say no but I changed my mind. I would want to know so I could go back home where I'd like my ashes to be buried. I'd like to see my family overseas one last time and die where I was born ...in their midst.  since you won't get to 'know'.... then people will tell you to go visit again, don't put it off... and make your final wishes known!

edit delete reply msowens1 wrote on Sep 27 lacidanielle said As far as the right to die....well, we don't let our pets suffer a painful, wretched death, so why should we? I think when we've had enough of this world, we should have the legal right to say, I'd like to leave next week or next month ...or today. It would be nice to have loved ones around me sharing my last day with love and laughter, music, great food, wine and chocolate...chocolate and lots of it. That would be preferable to being in agony and not even guaranteed that someone will hold my hand when it's my time to cross over.  how very very true!!!

delete reply oneluckybean wrote on Sep 27, edited on Sep 27 Nope I have no need to know. I live every single day I am allowed..with as few regrets as possible, because we all have a few.. There is a legal way to acknowledge your wishes with your Advanced Directives which everyone should have. I would never put my children..my mom my sister..through that choice of actually ending my life, and then living with that knowledge....but they would and could keep me comfortable and not do anything heroic to prolong my life if the prognosis were terminal.

delete reply oneluckybean wrote on Sep 27 My son died very suddenly..and his death changes nothing for me about the knowing, I would have hated to have days and weeks of pre-mourning knowing the 8th of January would be his last...we have wonderfully happy memories of those last few days and weeks with him..no tears... My friends son did at the same time of a long painful bout with lymphoma, and they knew and hoped and accepted, and were angry and in denial..all long before the actual day of his death..I feel their path was sooo much harder! But some of us dont get a choice..we dont get to know...

delete reply semisweetsioux wrote on Sep 27 Mo, I just wanted to say that this is a really fascinating blog thread . . . Very interesting to read everybody's input and comments . . . Lots of thought-provoking ideas being shared . . .

edit delete reply msowens1 wrote on Sep 27 it is a subject we all have an opinion on.... and I can see the arguments for both sides.... they are ALL valid

delete reply auntbee46 wrote on Sep 27 msowens1 said and BEE please don't think I mean she should be 'put down'.... but if she had the chance to see what would become of her, she would not want to be there!  Oh, Sweetie!!! No, no, no, no, no!!! That thought NEVER crossed my mind - I just brought that up because there are people in this world who would, but I never thought that you were one of them!!

delete reply auntbee46 wrote on Sep 27, edited on Sep 27 msowens1 said because I would want to know, like I want to know the day that xply is going to die, I want to prepare, I am not afraid of what is to come, and I don't question it.... and while I am prepared... I want more...  I don't want to prepare. I don't want to say Good Bye. I hate Good Bye!! Not the see you later type, but the heart crushing "I'll never see you again" Good Bye. I can't stand it. Maybe I'm just a coward, or selfish, but I hate knowing I'll never see someone again, and knowing the date that would mark the beginning of all the days I'd never see everyone again, would be crushing to me. I tell my loved ones how I feel about them all the time, and I am good with knowing that I've already let them know how I feel about them.

delete reply semisweetsioux wrote on Sep 27 msowens1 said it is a subject we all have an opinion on.... and I can see the arguments for both sides.... they are ALL valid  That is what I meant . . . It is a civil, even cordial DISCUSSION . . . nobody mocking any one else's opinion or take on the subject or ranting and raving about differences of opinion . . . I am seriously impressed with your friends!

delete reply auntbee46 wrote on Sep 27 oneluckybean said My son died very suddenly..and his death changes nothing for me about the knowing, I would have hated to have days and weeks of pre-mourning knowing the 8th of January would be his last...we have wonderfully happy memories of those last few days and weeks with him..no tears... My friends son did at the same time of a long painful bout with lymphoma, and they knew and hoped and accepted, and were angry and in denial..all long before the actual day of his death..I feel their path was sooo much harder! But some of us dont get a choice..we dont get to know...  It would rip my heart out no less if I had known in advance that my nephew would take his own life at age 17.

delete reply auntbee46 wrote on Sep 27 semisweetsioux said . It is a civil, even cordial DISCUSSION . . . nobody mocking any one else's opinion or take on the subject or ranting and raving about differences of opinion . . . I agree!!! Pretty awesome!! :)

edit delete reply msowens1 wrote on Sep 27 auntbee46 said It would rip my heart out no less if I had known in advance that my nephew would take his own life at age 17.  You are totally right Bee!!! as well as for Heather..... or anyone's heart ripping losses... my own included..... I guess the knowledge would belong to each person, know about yourself and not anyone else, unless they want to share it....

edit delete reply msowens1 wrote on Sep 27 semisweetsioux said I am seriously impressed with your friends! I love every one of them.....

delete reply hotstone2go wrote on Sep 27 msowens1 said I like the way you think.....  Thank you. And quite frankly, I can see the validity in everyone's opinion here for their various reasons. Our individuality is what makes us all unique, but what draws us to each other as friends. I have to say though that my dad pretty much taught me at an early age to live my life like every day was my last. He always said that you never know how long you have, he died at 58 of a massive heart attack.

delete reply hotstone2go wrote on Sep 27 msowens1 said I love every one of them.....  And we love you too dear Mo!

delete reply auntbee46 wrote on Sep 27 Yeppers!!! We sure do!!! ♥

delete reply trixyschaos wrote on Sep 27 I have to agree with what Heather typed down there when she spoke of a sudden death versus a death that "we knew it was going to happen" is in play.... I've seen both, have felt both versions of this death personally and as well have witnessed it with my patients. From a nurses stand point, neither one, whether knowing or unexpected is easy on family members. In fact I have a hard time saying which is harder on a family--the unexpected or the waiting for it to happen. From the stand point of having experienced each, I suppose in many ways when we were expecting my grandfather to die, when we knew it was coming, while it hurts and it's still a process we went through with grieving.....it was almost a peaceful place because we knew he was no longer suffering. With my sister in law who died suddenly of a pulmonary embolism there is always the shock, the instantaneous grief that overtakes you, and I truly believe that the shock of it all made it so much worse for all of us. My grandmother died suddenly....unexpectedly, and even though it has now been several years ago, I am still going through stages of grief with her loss.

edit delete reply msowens1 wrote on Sep 27 trixyschaos said I have to agree with what Heather typed down there when she spoke of a sudden death versus a death that "we knew it was going to happen" is in play.... I've seen both, have felt both versions of this death personally and as well have witnessed it with my patients. From a nurses stand point, neither one, whether knowing or unexpected is easy on family members. In fact I have a hard time saying which is harder on a family--the unexpected or the waiting for it to happen. From the stand point of having experienced each, I suppose in many ways when we were expecting my grandfather to die, when we knew it was coming, while it hurts and it's still a process we went through with grieving.....it was almost a peaceful place because we knew he was no longer suffering. With my sister in law who died suddenly of a pulmonary embolism there is always the shock, the instantaneous grief that overtakes you, and I truly believe that the shock of it all made it so much worse for all of us. My grandmother died suddenly....unexpectedly, and even though it has now been several years ago, I am still going through stages of grief with her loss.  when I read all of this, from the perspective of the family or friend, the reactions are perfectly what I'd expect them to me.... maybe I should have qualified my thoughts more specifically ~~ saying for ME, in my adult life, I would be one who wants to know...

delete reply trixyschaos wrote on Sep 27 msowens1 said maybe I should have qualified my thoughts more specifically ~~ saying for ME, in my adult life, I would be one who wants to know...  oh no you didn't have to specify...I was just throwing my thoughts out there.... It's been a beautiful discussion here of a very difficult topic....like others have said, I have truly enjoyed reading the comments and conversing with others. A very refreshing change.

delete reply achraj wrote on Sep 27 i have been thinking since yesterday...really..both sides of the perspective.... am certain about one thing...if it was me, who was suffering...i would want to have the right to tell the doc when to pull the plug...let me go....i would want time with my family and those i love...ensure they are taken care of .....that they will be fine...so i can go in peace...i couldn't go in peace if they weren't okay...... about my loved ones...its a tough question , scenario for me to envision....its the one thing, the only thing that upsets the very balance of me in a manner i cannot put into words...i cannot imagine it...i refuse to imagine it.....i am even scared to put this into words....but i have never had to deal with it....so i have no idea how i will react, do when i have to.... i dont know mo....one day at a time...whatever god throws my way....

delete reply hotstone2go wrote on Sep 28 I have to say from personal experience that the prolonged death is harder on everyone, the patient included. Sudden, unexpected, instant death in my personal opinion, and based strictly on my own experiences is the way to go. No tubes, wires, heroic measures, drugs up the wazoo, people looking at me with pity in their eyes, nope don't want to experience any of that. I've seen it first hand and it is a horrible way to spend your last days and a horrible way to die.

delete reply fatgrandmacat wrote on Sep 28 I would want to know.

delete reply ummancan wrote on Sep 28 I wouldnt want to know.

delete reply semisweetsioux wrote on Sep 29 msowens1 said I love every one of them.....  I feel quite confident in assuming that THEY love YOU, too . . . special people attract special people . . . =o)